Hate the Format

63
beniah
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 9:24:45 PM

Maybe it's because I'm an old fart set in my ways but I really dislike the default format of this forum. Give me a basic standard message board format with less white/blank space any day of the week.

allereli
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 9:37:52 PM

@beniah said in Hate the Format:

Maybe it's because I'm an old fart set in my ways but I really dislike the default format of this forum. Give me a basic standard message board format with less white/blank space any day of the week.

so change your settings

Ponclast
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 9:50:19 PM

It would be nice if there were skins that had a background that was grey-ish or paper-ish. They only let you choose between blinding white and pitch black, while only varying the backgrounds of the smaller page elements (like buttons and title bars).

Mogonis
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 9:54:08 PM

@ponclast said in Hate the Format:

It would be nice if there were skins that had a background that was grey-ish or paper-ish. They only let you choose between blinding white and pitch black, while only varying the backgrounds of the smaller page elements (like buttons and title bars).

There are 17 themes to choose from. I use Slate, which has a dark grey background. It's nice. Superhero has a soft blue background.

Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 9:55:33 PM

@mogonis He's right thought... I haven't checked it... man those other skins do suck.

We're focusing on functionality before fashion for now... but if you know HTML and stuff, you can probably help!

Mogonis
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 9:55:56 PM

Well, you'd need to know CSS.

beniah
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 10:10:19 PM

@allereli said in Hate the Format:

@beniah said in Hate the Format:

Maybe it's because I'm an old fart set in my ways but I really dislike the default format of this forum. Give me a basic standard message board format with less white/blank space any day of the week.

so change your settings

I suppose I could spend the time looking into that. That being said I've been a regular participant on dozens of forum sites over the years from sports to hobbies to politics and I can honestly say that I've never changed settings on any of them. It's a format that I'm not used to and I imagine a lot of people would feel the same way. That could be a problem when you're trying to attract an audience. I'll keep checking and reading. I just don't find it conducive to exchanging information in a an effective and easy to read manner.

The folder is suggestions and concerns. It's a concern. If I'm the only person who feels that way then by all means delete the thread. I'm an old libertarian male. I'd say conservative but many today tend to associate that with the republican party which is far from the truth. =P

As an example, I'm typing now into a box on half the screen, while the other half has a similar box that's mirroring this one. Just a wee confused =P

Mogonis
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 10:21:17 PM

The box on the right shows you what your post will look like. It's not that useful if you're just entering text, but if you entered formatted stuff, like code blocks, images, etc., it would be.

allereli
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 10:22:49 PM

@beniah said in Hate the Format:

’m an old libertarian male. I’d say conservative but many today tend to associate that with the republican party which is far from the truth. =P

why do those characteristics stop you from clicking on gears to adjust your settings?

beniah
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 10:38:57 PM

@allereli said in Hate the Format:

@beniah said in Hate the Format:

’m an old libertarian male. I’d say conservative but many today tend to associate that with the republican party which is far from the truth. =P

why do those characteristics stop you from clicking on gears to adjust your settings?

Because I don't like change for certain things. Pretty common for my ilk.

I tried. I am unable to make this site look like a prototypical message board as far as I can tell.

Mogonis
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 10:43:06 PM

It's not going to look like vBulletin, if that's your goal.

beniah
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 10:48:43 PM

Not a goal perhaps but right now the "look" to me is a downgrade from the officials, which is pretty frightening. Note that I said the "look" as I despise the officials. Guess I'll just keep checking in on the marketplace here for now. Had no clue what vBulletin was until now but a quick search shows that's the general look that I've been used to from all of the forums that I've ever spent time on from sports to DIY! Thanks for educatin' me Mogonis!

Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 11:02:05 PM

k.
Sorry the internet is such a confusing place. Keep working on it! One day you'll master things like 'navigation' and 'settings'. Good luck.

Alastir
Wednesday, September 20th, 2017, 11:16:19 PM

Click your profile icon (The B) in the upper right corner. Click settings. Change your skin settings to the color you like best.

Problem solved.

Losus
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 6:06:53 AM

Also for me I mostly check on my phone and the layout to me is perfect for my phone. And that it autoloads to the last post I viewed is the tits.

Flimbo
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 10:12:16 AM

@beniah said in Hate the Format:

Not a goal perhaps but right now the "look" to me is a downgrade from the officials, which is pretty frightening. Note that I said the "look" as I despise the officials. Guess I'll just keep checking in on the marketplace here for now. Had no clue what vBulletin was until now but a quick search shows that's the general look that I've been used to from all of the forums that I've ever spent time on from sports to DIY! Thanks for educatin' me Mogonis!

What you're seeing and hating is the responsive aspect of the design. Any webpage designed since 2013 has it. Sad fact is, based on the demographics I've seen over the past four years, most websites are browsed equally (about 33% each) between tablet, mobile, and desktop. That means that 66% of the time, your screen isn't the one being looked at, but the smaller version for a tablet or phone (shrink your browser window and you'll see what that does is remove all the whitespace, then start shrinking other stuff to fit it on whatever screen is displaying it). To give you an idea, here's a single day view of one of my client website's google analytics breakdowns:

alt text

And that's on a site that you'd think would be easiest to browse on an actual computer. It's a business to business portal for a Muffinarium.

Long story short, desktops aren't the device that's designed for first anymore, and the whitespace on the outside is just the direction of modern web design for the past few years. It could be replaced with a color or graphic with just a bar down the middle like some websites, but then it's harder to make it look as clean on all the mobile devices and tablets.

Riend
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 11:07:33 AM

@flimbo I agree/disagree with this. While "mobile first" is definitely the go-to model for web design these days, it is still possible to create a separate look on desktop that maintains those BIP standards. It's a lot more work, but totally doable.

I'm not a huge fan of the look of the forums, but since it's still in its infancy and looks to be run by more back-end devs than designers, I can't really complain about it. Growing pains, man!

That being said, I'd be more than happy to take on a side project and help mock-up some UX ideas for the site. I just finished up a freelance project and am procrastinating working on my site at the moment.

Flimbo
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 11:17:08 AM

@riend said in Hate the Format:

@flimbo I agree/disagree with this. While "mobile first" is definitely the go-to model for web design these days, it is still possible to create a separate look on desktop that maintains those BIP standards. It's a lot more work, but totally doable.

I'm not a huge fan of the look of the forums, but since it's still in its infancy and looks to be run by more back-end devs than designers, I can't really complain about it. Growing pains, man!

I dunno. I kinda agree/disagree as well in that yeah that's kinda what I meant in my last sentence about making the simple change to look nicer on desktop makes it harder for mobile/tablet design, but at the same time I think there's a disconnect between change in monitor resolution over the years that some of the older folks are seeing and disliking as well.

The official forums and the PC scale to 100% width, which was fine when everyone was running 1024x768 because it's relatively thin horizontally. Much like the thin column on newer desktop responsive designs that is there but semi-hidden in whitespace: All the text/graphics conform to that thinner inner boundary than your newer widescreen monitor can display. And to an extent, that's on purpose, because reading this wall of text explanation of all that on a 4k display that scales 100% results in one, maybe two exceptional long lines and you've actually got to turn your head to read the whole thing. Keeping all the meat of the page bound in that inner portion is not only good for mobile/tablet design, but also for ease of readability over the old 100% width formats. I haven't checked this site, but I think most inner boundaries for desktops are still set at 980px width, just as they were in 1024x768, and while that was done largely for a while because people still used it (and still do but that number is getting small enough not to worry about), now it's done because it's just easier to read on the gigantic monitors we all have because third world slave labor yaaaay.

Riend
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 11:34:19 AM

@flimbo said in Hate the Format:

@riend said in Hate the Format:

@flimbo I agree/disagree with this. While "mobile first" is definitely the go-to model for web design these days, it is still possible to create a separate look on desktop that maintains those BIP standards. It's a lot more work, but totally doable.

I'm not a huge fan of the look of the forums, but since it's still in its infancy and looks to be run by more back-end devs than designers, I can't really complain about it. Growing pains, man!

I dunno. I kinda agree/disagree as well in that yeah that's kinda what I meant in my last sentence about making the simple change to look nicer on desktop makes it harder for mobile/tablet design, but at the same time I think there's a disconnect between change in monitor resolution over the years that some of the older folks are seeing and disliking as well.

The official forums and the PC scale to 100% width, which was fine when everyone was running 1024x768 because it's relatively thin horizontally. Much like the thin column on newer desktop responsive designs that is there but semi-hidden in whitespace: All the text/graphics conform to that thinner inner boundary than your newer widescreen monitor can display. And to an extent, that's on purpose, because reading this wall of text explanation of all that on a 4k display that scales 100% results in one, maybe two exceptional long lines and you've actually got to turn your head to read the whole thing. Keeping all the meat of the page bound in that inner portion is not only good for mobile/tablet design, but also for ease of readability over the old 100% width formats. I haven't checked this site, but I think most inner boundaries for desktops are still set at 980px width, just as they were in 1024x768, and while that was done largely for a while because people still used it (and still do but that number is getting small enough not to worry about), now it's done because it's just easier to read on the gigantic monitors we all have because third world slave labor yaaaay.

I definitely don't disagree with you there. There's an entire science behind web content, and it changes almost on the daily. I'd halfheartedly argue that the current width of the text on these forums is -too wide-, especially on my 33" monitor but for someone running something much smaller it might be fine. Don't even get me started about designing for 4k. For someone who loves the "zig zag" feel of full-width images and container-constrained content, having to deal with the ramifications of someone viewing my website on their 72" 4k tv requires more caffeination than I've got in me right now.

It's part of my ongoing love/hate relationship with frameworks like bootstrap. They have a great mobile-first design structure that almost always forces me to rework columns and rows for optimal desktop design. Even with the addition of flexbox structure to BS4 alpha, it's still a little clunky on desktop.

Given how far we've come in regards to responsive design, I think it's a great dilemma to find ourselves in.

Ponclast
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 2:14:34 PM

@alastir said in Hate the Format:

Click your profile icon (The B) in the upper right corner. Click settings. Change your skin settings to the color you like best.

Problem solved.

Not solved until skins are added which let you choose between a color other than straight white or straight black for the background of the 95% of the screen that's in the middle.

Alastir
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 2:42:34 PM

@ponclast said in Hate the Format:

@alastir said in Hate the Format:

Click your profile icon (The B) in the upper right corner. Click settings. Change your skin settings to the color you like best.

Problem solved.

Not solved until skins are added which let you choose between a color other than straight white or straight black for the background of the 95% of the screen that's in the middle.

Slate is a light grey, Superhero is a gentle blue. There are 10+ options under skins.

Ponclast
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 3:57:43 PM

@alastir said in Hate the Format:

@ponclast said in Hate the Format:

@alastir said in Hate the Format:

Click your profile icon (The B) in the upper right corner. Click settings. Change your skin settings to the color you like best.

Problem solved.

Not solved until skins are added which let you choose between a color other than straight white or straight black for the background of the 95% of the screen that's in the middle.

Slate is a light grey, Superhero is a gentle blue. There are 10+ options under skins.

Slate is almost black on my browser. Superhero is a very dark blue-grey. Would really like something much lighter in color for the background (off-white/paper/pale colors).

viekn
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 4:51:52 PM

Slate seems to be the easiest on the eyes at least. I went back yesterday to try out some others and really liked superhero, but didn't like that all the link text was a coral color and I didn't see a way to change the link text specifically. Seems to be tied to the skin in general.

Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 9:15:26 PM

@ponclast said in Hate the Format:

Slate is almost black on my browser. Superhero is a very dark blue-grey. Would really like something much lighter in color for the background (off-white/paper/pale colors).

Can you provide something a little more actionable than "Different than Black and White" when two alternatives were proposed and subsequently determined to be insufficient while fitting your original criteria?

Clearly we're not going to have a skin with select-your-own-background. But it's probably easy enough to copy/paste a skin you like and set background to #0F0 or whatever.

beniah
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 10:22:23 PM

@whirlin said in Hate the Format:

k.
Sorry the internet is such a confusing place. Keep working on it! One day you'll master things like 'navigation' and 'settings'. Good luck.

Wow, thoughtful and productive response here Whirlin. If I didn't already think you were a decent dude I'd have pegged you for a condescending asshole based on this post alone.

The settings don't allow me to make this site look like what I'm used to and prefer. That is, what 99% of message boards look like today. I now understand that vbulletin-style and similar sites may become a thing of the past as more and more people are browsing on their phones and tablets, but for the moment this is a message board that doesn't look like a message board in my opinion, at least when viewed on a PC. I've since communicated with others who feel the same. Obviously, my opinion may absolutely suck and be a part of the clear minority, but it's my opinion.

Flimbo.....thanks for your extremely insightful response. Your post makes sense and answered my concerns, and I appreciate it.

Guess I'll walk away from this thread now. Maybe if I went with "dislike" instead of "hate" in the subject title I could have gotten off a little easier with Whirlin. I apologize.

Regardless of how the site looks to me I'll likely check on these boards with as much regularity as the PC forum, and who knows, maybe I'll grow to like this format in time! I don't often view message board sites on my phone. If I start to do that more frequently maybe I'll change for the better! For now I remain a vbulletin-style guy and I'm not afraid to admit it! =P

Tom

Ponclast
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 10:24:56 PM

@whirlin said in Hate the Format:

@ponclast said in Hate the Format:

Slate is almost black on my browser. Superhero is a very dark blue-grey. Would really like something much lighter in color for the background (off-white/paper/pale colors).

Can you provide something a little more actionable than "Different than Black and White" when two alternatives were proposed and subsequently determined to be insufficient while fitting your original criteria?

Clearly we're not going to have a skin with select-your-own-background. But it's probably easy enough to copy/paste a skin you like and set background to #0F0 or whatever.

"Would really like something much lighter in color for the background (off-white/paper/pale colors)."

Is it that hard to offer a background that isn't blazing white or almost-black (as are the two suggested choices in my browser)?

Alastir
Thursday, September 21st, 2017, 10:29:06 PM

@ponclast said in Hate the Format:

@alastir said in Hate the Format:

@ponclast said in Hate the Format:

@alastir said in Hate the Format:

Click your profile icon (The B) in the upper right corner. Click settings. Change your skin settings to the color you like best.

Problem solved.

Not solved until skins are added which let you choose between a color other than straight white or straight black for the background of the 95% of the screen that's in the middle.

Slate is a light grey, Superhero is a gentle blue. There are 10+ options under skins.

Slate is almost black on my browser. Superhero is a very dark blue-grey. Would really like something much lighter in color for the background (off-white/paper/pale colors).

How old is your monitor? It sounds like it's really old or some of your settings are off.

Losus
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 8:12:29 AM

@beniah

I would have gone with something more aptly titled "can someone help me change the background/format, new to this forum" versus hate the format. Logically you receive mor defensive and less kind responses versus if you had approached the thread with less inherent bias and vitriol.

Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 8:18:30 AM

@ponclast said in Hate the Format:

@whirlin said in Hate the Format:

@ponclast said in Hate the Format:

Slate is almost black on my browser. Superhero is a very dark blue-grey. Would really like something much lighter in color for the background (off-white/paper/pale colors).

Can you provide something a little more actionable than "Different than Black and White" when two alternatives were proposed and subsequently determined to be insufficient while fitting your original criteria?

Clearly we're not going to have a skin with select-your-own-background. But it's probably easy enough to copy/paste a skin you like and set background to #0F0 or whatever.

"Would really like something much lighter in color for the background (off-white/paper/pale colors)."

Is it that hard to offer a background that isn't blazing white or almost-black (as are the two suggested choices in my browser)?

Alright, I'll work on a new background with ##DDA0DD as the background color, which meets all of your requirements

archigeek
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 12:24:38 PM

I think some of you guys are confusing color with format. He hates the format. Your settings just change the color, whereas the format is very white space (or blue space or whatever) heavy. I don't understand why you're coming down hard on him for expressing a dislike for the format instead of responding politely to his concern, and maybe taking to heart that it's possible the format isn't very pleasant. He's not the first person to complain about it.

allereli
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 12:30:17 PM

@archigeek said in Hate the Format:

I don’t understand why you’re coming down hard on him for expressing a dislike for the format instead of responding politely to his concern, and maybe taking to heart that it’s possible the format isn’t very pleasant.

probably because he complained before even going into the settings to see what was available. Also his "I'm a Libertarian, so I'm allowed to do that" excuse.

I complained about the unused space as well because I'm a desktop user and the changes to the boards since then have vastly decreased that space to a satisfactory point.

Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 1:48:19 PM

@beniah We're working on adding more features like newest posts/etc onto the navigation menu. We've just had a couple other technical hurdles to tackle. The mobile integration is great, better than PC hands down, but haven't messed with the Tapatalk integration Kranar re-enabled. More options will become visible to you as you use it more. For example, there was a concern with the preview pane (which is hide-able)

Why I'm coming down hard:

I don't like soft requirements: They give shit guidance on development efforts, and usually people have something in mind, but without them clearly stating what they're looking for, they're gonna get bright pink backgrounds because all they wanted was not white/black, and that's another color. Devs aren't happy, people aren't happy, it's time invested, it's lose-lose.

If someone states "There's too much white space on the left/right margins of the screen, it looks like the center 70% of being used in the bottom frame". This is actionable, specific, the current definition and requested state are clearly defined.

"There's too much white space" doesn't direct any efforts in any capacity. Is that the top frame? Right frame? Between posts, between characters? Is it the top header before the navigation buttons? Should there be something to the right of the user identifier circle in the top right?

The more specificity, the easier our work becomes, the better the end product.

Riend
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 2:20:14 PM

One thing I do think would be great to add is a prompt for cancelling posts. Right now, if you navigate away from a post you've started you lose all the work. A prompt about whether you'd like to leave or stay(the PC does this) might be beneficial in case people make the mistake.

archigeek
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 2:31:54 PM

I think he was pretty clear. He likes the common V-bulletin look. Sure, at first he wasn't particularly clear, but he came around with some detail. I'll add that basically the text kind of looks lost in space. There's empty space with no definition to the left and right. I'll add that replying to other posts is done in a confusing window configuration. On the plus side, it's better than it was when it first came out.

allereli
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 2:37:31 PM

here's my screen. there's an inch to either side. what's the big deal?

0<em>1506105380644</em>Capture.JPG

Mogonis
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 2:44:20 PM

@riend said in Hate the Format:

One thing I do think would be great to add is a prompt for cancelling posts. Right now, if you navigate away from a post you've started you lose all the work. A prompt about whether you'd like to leave or stay(the PC does this) might be beneficial in case people make the mistake.

Hmm. That hasn't been my experience. If I start a post and navigate away, the bottom half of my browser keeps the post I was working on. It remains until I click the Discard button.

Ordim
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 2:52:59 PM

There is about 4.5 inches of wasted space on each side when browsing 1080p in chrome. That being said, it doesn't bother me personally. Lol @ "developers" getting mad at nondevelopers feedback "you didn't feedback the right way!"

allereli
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 3:02:58 PM

@ordim said in Hate the Format:

There is about 4.5 inches of wasted space on each side when browsing 1080p in chrome.

sucks for everyone with nice monitors!

archigeek
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 3:26:00 PM

The format of the PC is much nicer. Start there. This forum has some nice functionality that the PC doesn't have, but that format looks better. If you need me to break it down for you I can, or you could just go look. Here are some examples: things are nicely organized and boxed off from "other things". There's a nice, subtle color gradient in each post that helps distinguish one from next. Headers are defined with with the use of different colors, as are sub headers, etc. There are boxes around things.

allereli
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 3:32:10 PM

@archigeek said in Hate the Format:

The format of the PC is much nicer. Start there. This forum has some nice functionality that the PC doesn’t have, but that format looks better. If you need me to break it down for you I can, or you could just go look.

did you read the discussion or any other discussion about the features of the site first before saying this?

archigeek
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 3:50:38 PM

@allereli said in Hate the Format:

@archigeek said in Hate the Format:

The format of the PC is much nicer. Start there. This forum has some nice functionality that the PC doesn’t have, but that format looks better. If you need me to break it down for you I can, or you could just go look.

did you read the discussion or any other discussion about the features of the site first before saying this?

Feedback was requested in finer detail by Whirlin. I provided it. Are you asking me not to now?

The purpose of feedback is improvement of whatever the feedback is being provided on. You (if you have any role in the success or failure of this forum) should be happy to be getting feedback and should take it to heart, instead of attacking those who provide it. It's not the role of everyone who uses this forum to ask themselves, "gee, I wonder if this has been mentioned. I better do a search before I comment." If you want to shut down feedback channels, just keep attacking the messengers. That should do it.

The answers to your questions are yes and yes.

allereli
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 3:56:21 PM

@archigeek said in Hate the Format:

Feedback was requested in finer detail by Whirlin. I provided it. Are you asking me not to now?

Your feedback to go look at the PC says more about you than gives actual feedback.

Silvean
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:09:34 PM

The format of the PC looks extremely outdated to my eyes. As noted above, this site looks great on my cell.

That said, content and function are much more important than form for me.

archigeek
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:09:39 PM

I provided 5 specific examples, (besides referencing the PC) which you chose to not copy when you quoted me. Providing those examples was an effort to make sure the feedback was positive, in addition to specific examples being what Whirlin asked for. You seem to really be fixated on feedback as a negative, and I'm not sure why. I can get that the PC reference is perhaps a sore point, as this forum was created to get away from the acerbic attitude that pervades the PC, but format is format, not attitude.

archigeek
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:14:23 PM

@silvean I can agree that the format on the PC is dated, but this forum is basically the no format forum. I'm glad you're happy with the format, but I'd like to see a bit more graphic separation of various elements myself.

allereli
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:15:56 PM

@archigeek said in Hate the Format:

I provided 5 specific examples, (besides referencing the PC) which you chose to not copy when you quoted me. Providing those examples was an effort to make sure the feedback was positive, in addition to specific examples being what Whirlin asked for. You seem to really be fixated on feedback as a negative, and I’m not sure why. I can get that the PC reference is perhaps a sore point, as this forum was created to get away from the acerbic attitude that pervades the PC, but format is format, not attitude.

And you think they're not working on or trying different things? Everything you cited has been addressed in some manner before, so no, I don't think you're really making an effort here to be helpful, only to have an attitude because you're upset that some other guy with an attitude was given an attitude in return.

archigeek
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:28:21 PM

@allereli said in Hate the Format:

@archigeek said in Hate the Format:

I provided 5 specific examples, (besides referencing the PC) which you chose to not copy when you quoted me. Providing those examples was an effort to make sure the feedback was positive, in addition to specific examples being what Whirlin asked for. You seem to really be fixated on feedback as a negative, and I’m not sure why. I can get that the PC reference is perhaps a sore point, as this forum was created to get away from the acerbic attitude that pervades the PC, but format is format, not attitude.

And you think they're not working on or trying different things? Everything you cited has been addressed in some manner before, so no, I don't think you're really making an effort here to be helpful, only to have an attitude because you're upset that some other guy with an attitude was given an attitude in return.

When did I say they weren't trying to improve? If I thought they weren't trying to improve I wouldn't be offering feedback. None of the specific items I referenced have been implemented on this forum, where the format basically boils down to "posts divided by a single line." If that's what people agree they want, I can manage, but I prefer more graphics, and voiced that opinion here, where it's the topic. Whirlin, who I gather is involved in the format here, asked for specifics in the area of feedback. I provided them. This should be a positive conversation.

Riend
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:40:05 PM

@mogonis said in Hate the Format:

@riend said in Hate the Format:

One thing I do think would be great to add is a prompt for cancelling posts. Right now, if you navigate away from a post you've started you lose all the work. A prompt about whether you'd like to leave or stay(the PC does this) might be beneficial in case people make the mistake.

Hmm. That hasn't been my experience. If I start a post and navigate away, the bottom half of my browser keeps the post I was working on. It remains until I click the Discard button.

If I'm writing this post and I decide to click to another website it doesn't prompt me to keep or discard changes, it just goes. It's just good practice to prompt before you leave a page. By no means a necessity.

Riend
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:46:33 PM

@allereli said in Hate the Format:

@archigeek said in Hate the Format:

Feedback was requested in finer detail by Whirlin. I provided it. Are you asking me not to now?

Your feedback to go look at the PC says more about you than gives actual feedback.

Actually, using examples to try and further illustrate a point is good feedback. I'd give a digit to have my clients offer up anything remotely that detailed.

He's not just saying "I don't like this, look at this to see good design," he's pointing out where he prefers the design and why. None of his reasons are saying "the PC is the end all, be all best forum ever." It's been designed with general end users, without a specific level of experience or preference, in mind instead of the bare bones look of this new forum. That's pretty much why there's an entire field of UI/UX designers and the majority of end big-name companies with any kind of web presence have them.

I'm not sure why constructive feedback is being met with combative responses here. He's certainly not attacking anyone here.

allereli
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:50:46 PM

@riend said in Hate the Format:

I’m not sure why constructive feedback is being met with combative responses here. He’s certainly not attacking anyone here.

I probably read it very differently than you do based on previous experience.

Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:51:01 PM

What @archigeek said is actionable enough to be good enough. My comments were never in regards to Archigeek's posts, but Ponclast and Beniah, to defend my earlier dismissive commentary. Both whom have subsequently given slightly more information after the initial posts.

Riend
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:54:14 PM

@whirlin said in Hate the Format:

What @archigeek said is actionable enough to be good enough. My comments were never in regards to Archigeek's posts, but Ponclast and Beniah, to defend my earlier dismissive commentary. Both whom have subsequently given slightly more information after the initial posts.

I agree, if out of 100 feedback responses only 2 are actionable... still definitely a win. =)

Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 4:59:56 PM

Ohh... and the reason for the Left/Right margins is that I can throw plug-ins over in the left/right frame... Let me activate one for like, 15 minutes to show you all, and SUPER confuse anyone that is just passing by

scratch that, my widgets are turned off, and I'd need to force a node reboot... I'll play more later.

Mogonis
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 5:03:55 PM

@riend said in Hate the Format:

@mogonis said in Hate the Format:

@riend said in Hate the Format:

One thing I do think would be great to add is a prompt for cancelling posts. Right now, if you navigate away from a post you've started you lose all the work. A prompt about whether you'd like to leave or stay(the PC does this) might be beneficial in case people make the mistake.

Hmm. That hasn't been my experience. If I start a post and navigate away, the bottom half of my browser keeps the post I was working on. It remains until I click the Discard button.

If I'm writing this post and I decide to click to another website it doesn't prompt me to keep or discard changes, it just goes. It's just good practice to prompt before you leave a page. By no means a necessity.

But...the Discard and Submit buttons are always shown when you have a pending post. It's basically a popup-less prompt. If you navigate away on accident, you haven't lost anything.

Riend
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 5:07:48 PM

@mogonis said in Hate the Format:

@riend said in Hate the Format:

@mogonis said in Hate the Format:

@riend said in Hate the Format:

One thing I do think would be great to add is a prompt for cancelling posts. Right now, if you navigate away from a post you've started you lose all the work. A prompt about whether you'd like to leave or stay(the PC does this) might be beneficial in case people make the mistake.

Hmm. That hasn't been my experience. If I start a post and navigate away, the bottom half of my browser keeps the post I was working on. It remains until I click the Discard button.

If I'm writing this post and I decide to click to another website it doesn't prompt me to keep or discard changes, it just goes. It's just good practice to prompt before you leave a page. By no means a necessity.

But...the Discard and Submit buttons are always shown when you have a pending post. It's basically a popup-less prompt.

Unless you accidentally do it. It's one of the few times a modal is useful and advisable. Any time the cost is potentially high (which is debatable in regards to having typed out a post), it's a good idea to require a confirmation before allowing a user to navigate away.

Mogonis
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 5:44:44 PM

But it's not lost. As soon as you come back, the website shows you your pending post.

Riend
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 5:46:53 PM

I can come up with a number of scenarios where you wouldn't come back, but it really just seems to me like you just don't agree. If that's the case, no amount of linking to UX posts, reasoning or discussion is going to change your mind. It's a good practice, not just my personal preference. Take it or leave it.

Mogonis
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 5:50:58 PM

No, you're right. You're probably referring to quick reply, which the website doesn't track. I tend to quote when I post, and the website stores that mode.

Kragdruk
Friday, September 22nd, 2017, 6:03:56 PM

Personally, I greatly prefer this site's design to vBulletin/phpBB. I would not want to look more similar to outdated forums like the PC or officials. I think that modern forum software like https://www.discourse.org/ would be a much better place to draw inspiration.

beniah
Saturday, September 23rd, 2017, 8:03:26 AM

@losus Yes. Agreed

beniah
Saturday, September 23rd, 2017, 8:23:16 AM

@allereli said in Hate the Format:

@archigeek said in Hate the Format:

I don’t understand why you’re coming down hard on him for expressing a dislike for the format instead of responding politely to his concern, and maybe taking to heart that it’s possible the format isn’t very pleasant.

probably because he complained before even going into the settings to see what was available. Also his "I'm a Libertarian, so I'm allowed to do that" excuse.

Meh, whatever, that was intended as a quip and not an excuse. Agreed that my original post was more of a WTF compliant as opposed to a request for assistance. My bad. But at least it did generate some better discussion more recently. I guess what it comes down to is that I tend to browse online forums while at my desk working so I never gave it much thought beyond that. I can see the appeal when viewed on a mobile like I am ATM

Evarin
Saturday, September 23rd, 2017, 8:28:40 AM

Now that it has been pointed out, there is a pretty massive amount of space on either side of my screen. Weird, but apparently by design for the time being. Otherwise, in terms of navigation, I only use the "unread" button on the upper toolbar. You read the posts you care about, then just set the rest as read. I would recommend ignoring any threads that will never interest you (done by entering the thread and choosing ignore from the dropdown menu), and in short time the site will be easily digested.

The ignore thread option is this forum's greatest strength. Use it. Learn to love it.

Parkbandit
Saturday, September 23rd, 2017, 8:49:24 AM

@evarin said in Hate the Format:

The ignore thread option is this forum's greatest strength. Use it. Learn to love it.

I agree.

I don't think I have anything set up yet on ignore, but is there some things that are default on ignore? That would explain the lack of content threads here. This thread has been the only really active one in the past 2 days.